Yuval Noah Harari is one of the most influential intellectuals of today.They consult and summon it from around the world, from the president of France, Emmanuel Macron, to businessman Bill Gates and the German Chancellor, Ángela Merkel.He says that one of its main objectives is to "get scientific information precise as many people as possible".In this situation, "if an effort is not made to bring science to the general public, the free land for all types of ridiculous conspiracy theories is left," he says.In this sense, and in the face of this danger, he argues that "the work of public intellectuals is to take the last scientific theories and find a way of translating them into an accessible story, without abandoning commitment to fundamental facts".
His Sapiens works: from animals to gods;Homo Deus: Brief History of Tomorrow;21 lessons for the 21st century;and sapiens.A graphic story, among others, review the origins of the world and mark possible futures scenarios.The latter, crossed by one of its central interests and foci: the ethics of scientific and technological development in the 21st century.
En diálogo con Página/12 y a más de un año del comienzo de la pandemia de la covid-19, Harari repasa los distintos aspectos de la crisis que desató el virus y sus corolarios.
--What is your analysis of the times that run and what ideas the pandemic situation in the world triggered in you?
-The first lesson of the pandemic is that we must invest more in our public health systems.At this time, this should be obvious to all.Although all human beings are potential guests of the virus, this is not democratic in two fundamental aspects.First, it is a greater risk for some people.Second, their economic impacts will not feel equally in all parts of the world.We should especially concern the economic effects of this pandemic in developing countries.I think that, although the virus itself is not democratic, we can strive to maintain democratic principles in our response to virus.At another level, this crisis has demonstrated the serious danger of world disunity.Many lives have been lost due to the inability of world leaders to work together.A year has passed since the beginning of the crisis and, unfortunately, we still don't have a world action plan.It is evident that this crisis has revealed how fractured the international system is and has revealed how dangerous this situation is.Somehow, it is almost as if nature were testing our global response system to see how we could handle something much worse in the future.Unfortunately, the way we have managed pandemia does not inspire much confidence that we can handle something more complex such as climate change or increased artificial intelligence.I hope this pandemic serves as a call for attention for humanity.
--En relación con un plan de acción mundial, usted dice que “tenemos el conocimiento científico para solucionar esta crisis, pero no la sabiduría política para hacerlo”.What does "political wisdom" refer to?
-All the great achievements of humanity, from the construction of the pyramids to the flight to the moon, were not the result of an individual genius, but of cooperation between countless strangers.Demonstrating political wisdom would mean acting in a way that this power of cooperation for the benefit of all is maximized.We know that humanity is capable of this type of collaboration.Just look at scientific research.Now, whenever we talk about global cooperation, some people immediately oppose.They say that there is an inherent contradiction between nationalism and globalism, and that we must choose national loyalty and therefore reject global cooperation.This is a mistake.There is no contradiction between nationalism and globalism.Nationalism is about caring for your compatriots;Not to hate foreigners.A pandemic is exactly such a situation.If all countries cooperate there is the possibility that COVID-19 be the last great pandemic in history.
`` The crisis of nationalism pointed out while other voices underline their boom.
-If it is common to talk about the resurgence of nationalism, what we are seeing throughout the world is the collapse of national solidarity and its replacement by a dividing tribalism.Nationalism is not about hating foreigners.Nationalism is about loving your countrymen.And currently, there is a global shortage of such love.In countries like Iraq, Syria and Yemen, internal hatreds have led to the complete disintegration of the State and to civilian civil wars.In countries like the United States, the weakening of national solidarity has led to growing fissures in society.The animals within American society have reached such a level that many Americans hate and fear their fellow citizens much more than they hate and fear Russians or Chinese.50 years ago, both the Democrats and the Republicans feared that the Russians would impose a totalitarian regime in the "Land of Freedom".Now, both Democrats and Republicans are terrified that the other party is committed to destroying their way of life.In this crisis of nationalism, many leaders who present themselves as patriots are in fact the opposite.Instead of strengthening national unity, divisions within society using a incendiary language and dividing policies, and describing anyone who opposes them not as a legitimate rival but rather as a dangerous traitor.Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro are the main examples.
-His writings warn about the increase in surveillance and control from the pandemic. ¿Podría explicar el punto?
-Some commentators have argued that the relatively efficient way in which China faced pandemia is proof that authoritarian systems are more appropriate to deal with crisis like this.But this is not necessarily true.We also see how more decentralized countries such as New Zealand and South Korea have done quite well without abandoning their democratic values and without sacrificing the freedoms and human rights of their citizens.There are also authoritarian countries like Iran that have demonstrated their incompetence.We do not need to accept the principle that centralized authoritarian states are necessarily better equipped to survive this type of shock.Perhaps the real danger is the issue of surveillance, and how certain types of surveillance "under the skin" can be intensified or normalized by pandemic.If you use a biometric bracelet that monitors what is happening under the skin, the government can also know what you are feeling, for example, while reading what I am saying now.Surveillance under the skin can create the best health system in history, a system that knows that you are sick even before you realize.But you can also create the most totalitarian regime that has ever existed-a regime that knows what you are thinking and that you cannot hide----.
--In some circles there is a kind of glare due to artificial intelligence, which you say can be "a technology of domination". ¿De qué manera cree que la tecnología puede interactuar o influir en los sistemas políticos?
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-As a historian, I am inclined to look at how the previous ones of technological change influenced political systems.In the nineteenth century, we see how a few countries like Great Britain and Japan were industrialized first, and then they conquered and exploit most of the world.If we are not careful, the same will happen with artificial intelligence (AI) and automation.We do not need to imagine a scenario of science fiction of robots rebeling against humans.I speak of a much more primitive artificial intelligence, which however is enough to alter the global balance.Consider how politics could be in Argentina in 20 years, when someone in San Francisco or Beijing knows all the medical and personal history of each politician, journalist or judge of his country, including his sexual escapes, corrupt treatment or mental weaknesses.Will it remain an independent democratic country?Or would it be a data colony?
-The discussion about the function and purpose given to technology...
--But I want to underline that these are just possibilities, not certainties.We should not be victims of technological determinism.It is still possible to prevent this from happening and we can make sure that artificial intelligence serves all humans, instead of a small elite.For example, as regards surveillance issues, engineers are currently developing AI tools at the service of governments and companies, to monitor citizens.But we can develop AI tools that monitor governments and corporations at the service of citizens.Technically, it is very easy to develop an AI tool that exposes corruption.For an individual citizen, it is impossible to review all the data and discover which politicians appointed their relatives for lucrative jobs in the government.For an AI, that would take two seconds.This is something that citizens can and must demand.
--En relación con esto último, sus trabajos insisten en que “la gente más fácil de manipular es la que cree en el libre albedrío”. ¿Qué es el libre albedrío y por qué sostiene que la sensación de libre albedrío tiende trampas?
-People make decisions all the time.But most of these decisions are not made freely.They are molded by several biological, cultural and political forces.The belief in the "free will" is dangerous because it cultivates ignorance about ourselves.We are blind to how suggestible we are and the things that we are not even aware to shape our decisions.When we chose something-a product, a career, a spouse, a politician-we tell ourselves: "I chose this for my free will".If this is the case, then there is nothing more to investigate.There is no reason to be curious or skeptical about what happens within me, and about the forces that shape my choice.This is particularly dangerous today, because corporations and governments are acquiring new and powerful technologies to shape and manipulate our choices.Consequently, belief in free will is more dangerous today than ever before.People shouldn't believe only in free will.You should explore yourself and understand what really shapes your desires and decisions.It is the only way to make sure not to become puppets of a dictator or a superintelligent computer.If governments or corporations get to know each other better than we know ourselves, then they can sell us what they want, be it a product or a politician.
-Finish to these risks, what global system should it be established to prevent the negative consequences of this?
-The development of a more ethical technology will require institutional and infrastructural changes.But there are some small settings that we can make to start.For example, a doctor cannot start exercising without having any ethical education;We all agree.However, we do not expect computer programmers to take ethics courses even though they have a tremendous influence on human lives.These are the people who are writing the codes with whom our societies work.Many of the questions that philosophers have discussed for thousands of years have now migrated to the computer department.We have to ensure that programmers who design the algorithms that drive autonomous vehicles have learned to think ethically.On a larger scale, there are some more general principles for ethical technology.
--For example?
-First, do not allow too many data to concentrate on one place.Many countries will see the need to centralize epidemiological data after this pandemic.This would be a wonderful tool, but it would be better to establish an independent health authority that collects and analyzes this data and keeps them away from the police or the big corporations.Yes, that is inefficient, but inefficiency is a characteristic, not an error.If the system is too efficient, it can easily become a digital dictatorship.Second, people's personal data should always be used to help them instead of damaging or manipulating them.This principle applies, for example, doctors.Sharing data to find a cure for COVID-19 is good, but it is not to share data to help a corporation to avoid payment of their taxes or help an authoritarian regime to repress dissidents.Third, provided that the surveillance of individual citizens is increased, the surveillance of governments and large corporations should be increased simultaneously.If the surveillance only goes from top to bottom, this leads to the digital dictatorship.Surveillance should always go both ways.
--Nadie desconoce la posición de Trump frente a la pandemia.However, and although he has lost the presidential election, he received an important flow of votes.In Brazil something similar happens in terms of support to Bolsonaro.What analysis does it in this regard?
--Trump and Bolsonaro have spent recent years undermining public confidence in science, government agencies and the media.As expected, those countries are now fighting for people to listen to scientific guidelines and take basic security precautions.It is not too late to rebuild trust, but this will require investing in institutions and education.Ultimately, however, this approach is better for all.A well -informed population can face the crisis better than an ignorant and guarded population.Countries with leaders such as Trump and Bolsonaro have experienced a lot of unnecessary suffering.And these leaders must be considered responsible.When the black plague spread in the fourteenth century, humanity simply lacked the necessary knowledge to overcome the plague, so it could hardly be blamed for the medieval kings of the catastrophe.But today we have all the scientific knowledge necessary to contain and defeat the pandemic.If in spite of everything we do not, the fault is incompetent politicians.