Joan Subirats (Barcelona, May 19, 1951) replaces Manuel Castells, who has left the Ministry of Universities for health reasons. If Subirats knows something, it is the university habitat. Between his years as a student and as a teacher, he spent 53 years at the university, until he made the leap to politics at the hands of Ada Colau, who commissioned him to rescue culture in the city and has now placed him as minister so that the commons have their own political voice in the Government of Pedro Sánchez.
Government Allies
"There is tension, but as long as the alternative is PP and Vox... that favors agreements"
Has Sánchez, Yolanda Díaz or Colau appointed you minister?
From a formal point of view, Sánchez appointed me. The call to think about whether he would accept was made by Colau. Without the agreement of the three he would not be a minister.
What remains of that new policy announced by Podemos and the Comuns?
In these years we are witnessing a change of era and when we see the current debates on energy, mobility, trade, communication... we see that the new policy is one of the factors that has contributed to things having happened this way. The coalition government was not imaginable a few years ago. And there is a change in what I call the common senses, what is or is not thinkable to do.
Is the coalition government fragile?
The political system is no longer stable. Rubalcaba said that it was not possible to have stable governments with less than 170 deputies. And how far is that figure now for any game. Democracies around the world are also less stable.
Does Yolanda Díaz better represent the current moment in the space around Podemos than Pablo Iglesias?
The act of Valencia expressed more plurality of political forces than previous ones. Everyone plays their role at the time.
It has been said that you are the intellectual father of Colau.
Nobody can attribute an intellectual paternity of the mayor, who has a trajectory of her own. We coincided in 2014, I from a more intellectual reflection and she from the activist practice. And the relationship has been consolidating.
What lesson do you draw from these years of political management?
My specialty has been political science and contrasting theory with practice was a challenge. I have learned that there are things that he taught that made sense and others have surprised me, such as the short-term nature of political activity or the importance of communication.
Does the progressive coalition work better in Barcelona or in the central government?
My first impression is that the level of commitment to what is decided jointly in Madrid is very strong. The contrast of positions and ideas exists and it is good that we get used to it because the political fragmentation is going to continue.
Have you seen the movie Don't Look Up?
Yes I have seen it. It is light but it explains what we mentioned before, the role of the media, post-truth, the role of science. It raises very current issues.
And the role of social networks, which were important for the commons. Don't they delve into political short-termism?
Yes, but the political system renews its legitimacy and authority based on the will of the people expressed in the elections. Short-termism must be contrasted with other long-term logics, such as the 2030 objectives or the commitments with the EU.
What urgent changes should the central government face? Should he dare a constitutional change?
My first impression in Congress is of a high level of political tension and a lack of alternatives for the opposition. More vision is needed to address these issues.
That can be an excuse for immobility.
It is obvious that the Constitution needs to be changed, but we have not even been able to modify the Judicial Power Council. I don't think we can open that melon even if we have to. But in the last two years, the number of legislative changes that have been made is impressive. Only in Universities have there been decrees on fees, on scholarships, the organization of new universities, the system of degree studies, law of coexistence, discussion of the law of the university system...
Well, Manuel Castells was called the invisible minister.
That Castells had less presence in the press is another problem. But being a ministry detached from Science and Education, much has been done.
Should you join Science?
The important thing is that the relations between the ministries are fluid. For me it is impossible to be Minister of Universities without having a constant relationship with Science, Economy, Education, Labor and Culture. For example, we must see what effects new technologies or artificial intelligence have on the curricular system. And we have to go to training throughout life.
What role do universities have to play in this field?
The EU's goal is to double the number of people in training from 16 to 70 years old, which is currently 30%. Universities cannot be left out.
Don't you need more flexibility and decision autonomy in qualifications, hiring, personnel management?
That's where we are, trying to see how we organize the issue of the university organic law (LOSU) and the decrees to make it possible. But I just got here.
LOSU does not facilitate agility and is excessively regulatory, according to the sector.
It is in the process of elaboration.
What is the timetable for passing the law?
I am clear that I will not start from scratch. All sectors have been talked to and work has already been done. It is true that there are different opinions, but what worries me are the blocking coalitions, people who do not agree with each other, but who do block the change.
Perhaps that is already happening because this draft is rejected by the rectors, the students, the unions...
The university is not going to change because of a law, but without it there will be no significant changes. The combination of lifelong learning, citizen science, open science, working with artificial intelligence... are new elements. Universities are ancient institutions that have gone through many changes of time and have been able to adapt.
And regarding governance, the election of the rector, the composition of the faculty or the election of the Social Council?
These issues, so much discussed, we will have to review them, yes. I insist that I just arrived.
This law will need the support of parliamentary allies. Do you see that alliance solid?
It has worked remarkably well so far. There is tension between the Government and its allies, but it is necessary to see the alternatives that exist outside.
That is, as long as PP and Vox are on the other side...
That favors agreements. And in addition, a more plural way of understanding the country can be forged. It is an alliance of parties with a more specific territorial presence and that facilitates the functioning of the political system that recognizes the plurality of the system.
In two years there may be a turnaround and the PP governs, even with Vox.
I hope that in these two years these mechanisms will end up being reinforced. What has been done with the Conferences of Presidents has been very important, but it needs to be reinforced, that the policies be more agreed upon in a structural way, not just circumstantially. The maturity of this composite system is at stake. The autonomies have been consolidated and this Government has to reinforce this quasi-federalism that is working. The force of the territorial gains weight and that is not temporary.
Can we reach a federal State without the need to make changes in the institutions?
One could even speak of a factual federalism, in fact, that does not have to have a strong institutional translation.
Where is Catalonia going after ten years of procés?
I think that everything that happened in 2017 is very difficult to repeat, but what happened affects what happens now. The very existence of the dialogue table contrasts with what the PP did. It is a possibility to build a new reality. Pardons favor the transition.
The Puigdemont case remains pending
The Minister of Justice, Pilar Llop, said that the crime of sedition does not fit at a European level with those of disorder or rebellion. The adaptation of our system to the European logic can help resolve what remains pending, because there are many pending processes.
How has the internal conflict been managed in Catalonia? In the university there have also been clashes between sectors favorable and opposed to independence.
The Coexistence Law already establishes that academic activities must be respected without alteration. The university must always defend being a space of freedom of expression.
Do the rectors have to express their political opinions?
When you are rector it happens like when you are mayor, that you are everyone's. It is not that they are apolitical, but they have to be able to represent the entire university community by defending their own ideas.
Why have politicians, including common ones, disdained Culture so much?
In my case it is not like that. From the first day I expressed that for me culture was a central element in the life of the city and that the relationship between culture and education, culture and knowledge, culture and science had to be greatly strengthened. It is a key idea that I take with me to the ministry. With the Minister of Culture I would like to build joint programs with cultural institutions. Or incorporate citizen science into universities. The Biennial of Thought or the Biennial of Science in Barcelona were formulas to go beyond traditional limits.
Which politician close to you would like to be inspired by?
Difficult question. (Think)
I see you are slow to respond.
Obama's moment was very exciting.
Very close it is not.
The closer, the more tendency to see grays. Colau seems to me that, with his virtues and defects, he has great political intuition and will for change. Enrico Berlinguer, in Italy, I liked a lot because of his ability to build relationships with other political forces. And I remember my teacher and thesis director, Jordi Solé Tura.